When a Handgun Isn’t a Handgun: The Vz58 Pistol RCMP Report

In October 2013, with the help of Zahal.org, I imported a CSA Vz58 pistol and sought to register it with the RCMP.

After emails, phone-calls, and picture taking, the RCMP seemed totally befuddled as to what we had, and asked if they could take a look at it.

We sent it off, and 9 months later they claim to have figured it out.

I’ve attached a copy of the RCMP’s final report, warts and all:

Vz58 Handgun Inspection Report.pdf

I am disappointed to find that against all evidence, the RCMP has sought to shut out the Vz58 pistol.

Vz58 Pistol and Magazine

Apparently my Vz58 pistol is technically a handgun, but it is not a pure handgun. Instead it is a “handgun adaptation of a rifle” which means that my separately sourced magazine from Czech Republic is actually a rifle magazine, posing as a handgun magazine. There is no classification in Canadian law for a “handgun adaptation of a rifle.”

But: this is their argument behind, a 5 round capacity limitation. Apparently my Vz58 Pistol magazine is a prohibited device.

Honestly I find this pretty disheartening. I’ve had $1500 of my own money tied up in this gun for 9 months, and to have this ridiculous report come back is a slap in the face.

The interpretation of the law seems to vary wildly from firearm to firearm. An AR-15 pistol, like the Rock River Arms LAR or ATRS pistol, have a 10 round capacity, but the Vz family does not? This seems like more muddying of the “lineage” argument, which seems to ignore what things are in favour of what they “might have been.”

This seems like an unfortunate continuation of the RCMP’s targeting Cz858, Vz58, and Sa58 pattern rifles.

For the past 9 months we’ve had a micro-site up dedicated to the Vz58 pistol and answering questions about it: http://www.vz58pistol.ca/

I am currently exploring options with National Firearms organizations and media, but after 9 months I’m pretty sick of being strung along.

Vz58 Pistol Magazine
A Proprietary Vz58 Pistol Magazine
  • Dennis Greer

    Sadly, it’s not surprising. As per usual, the RCMP are making up the rules as they go along. When the written rules don’t fit their agenda of barring Canadians from owning firearms, they invent their own. If I remember correctly, the gun meets all the requirements to be a non-restricted rifle, but they just don’t like it. Just one more reason to call for disbanding the RCMP completely.

    • Lawson

      Guns have no place in a modern, civilized society. The RCMP is what is holding our country together, if it wasn’t for there tireless efforts loons such as yourself would be roaming the streets shooting women and children for sport. What need is there for you to possess firearms? You’re protected by police and if you want some meat you can go buy it at the grocery store, so you don’t need guns to provide for yourself. I’m just thankful that the majority of Canadians are able to see gun owners for what they really are, low life criminals determined to undermine the safety of the rest of the population.

      • I’m intrigued that you think you live in a modern, civilized society…

        • EhCanadianEh

          Modern, yes, by definition, civilized…I think not.

          Humanity is just as barbaric and primitive now as we ever were. Our citizens sometimes “snap” and hurt other people, our cops the same. Sometimes it is our “modern” governments that make war on other countries or even their *own* people……. current genocides on going in the last few years around the world, government forces (cops and soldiers) killing men, women and children.

          Humanity has not evolved, only our technology has, making us modernized but still primitive.

      • Erik Tarves

        I honestly hope you are being sarcastic.

      • Alex Kourany

        Not a single fact based statement was made presented. Just 100% fear mongering. Thanks for insulting over 2 million gun owner’s in Canada. Who are known for being some of the safest, law abiding citizens in Canada. The states prove it too, you just blabbering about total “anarchy” breaking out won’t cut it any more. I’m tired of being labelled by people who have no idea what they are speaking of.

        • Guest

          The RCMP officers killed in Moncton were shot by firearms acquired legally according to current law. All of you ought to be ashamed of yourselves the blood of those officers is on the hands of every single gun owner in this country. I’m sure you’ll end up in jail someday you criminals.

          • Alex Kourany

            Again not a single fact based argument. Just shear fear mongering. Sorry but 2 million plus Canadian gun owner’s will not take responsibility for the actions of one. Just like we don’t blame all of Islam for terrorist attack’s. If anyone should be put away it’s you for being so bias.

          • fg

            I don’t own a gun and even I think you’re a complete fucking moron for saying that. Get a clue you god dam yuppie idiot. I guess everyone with a drivers license has blood on their hands from those select few that decide to DUI and kill someone? God you are stupid! I hope you get shot in the face for being such a ignorant bigot.

          • EhCanadianEh

            “Blood on your hands” omg..the cliches never stop!!!

            Yes! Somehow 2,000,000 -5,000,000 Canadians are directly responsible for the actions of one madman!

            Seems you hate and far legal gun owners.

            You do realize that sometimes cops and soldiers go on killing sprees too, with their service weapons…….. do you feel they are all too blame or do you feel that it is still “ok” for them to have guns “for your protection”?

            You should be ashamed of youself……. I bet you think all black people are X because you saw on do X before too.

      • darren

        Honestley lawson canadian gun owners are better citizens than most we as gun owners are subject to daily criminal record checks and because of that we folow the rules and laws to protect our investment time and efforts and the privilage to own such guns further more most gun owners are hunters as well and invest countless hours and dollars to help protect and preserve the environment so future genorations can and will be able to do the same did you not know that and what have you done latley ?

      • George Psofimis

        If you don’t post with your name then you are simply a cowardly troll.

      • Gordon Blakeburn

        You are the one dysfunctional troll hiding your name and spouting nonsense to any other sheeple that will listen. Protected by police? That one statement shows how very little you know about this subject. The police have no duty to protect anyone as ruled by the supreme court.

      • Seamus

        lol oh a stupid small person you are, I wish i could live in your world….Good to see you are too much of a coward to post your name.

      • David Real Blanchet

        The guest above is obviously a troll. “If you want meat you can go buy it at the store”? “Protected by the police”? An amazingly ignorant post

      • EhCanadianEh

        You sir are a quite the intelligent comedian. No “anti” would every write all the things you said as you have said them, rather an extreme “pro-gun” person who is mocking antis. You hit all of their main talking points……. their loathing hatred and fear of every legal gun owner, how they blame us for all crime and all shooting sprees, how they feel the cops with guns = ok, but these exact same people with guns off duty = dangerous criminals if they have their service firearm. Women and children? Classic!!! “The streets” CLASSIC! Buy your meat at a grocery store? Also classic and cliche! (technically you should have added “where meat is “made”” to complete the cliche). Another cliche, assume that every Canadian that doesn’t own a gun is anti gun and fears us as low life criminals- another classic anti-gun propaganda method (bandwagon) that stereotypes, scapegoats, and demonizes legal firearms owners.

        KUDOS to you for your summary of the anti-gun fear mongering …er I mean “logic”.

      • Mark

        Switzerland is armed to the teeth and is very safe with one of the lowest homicide rates in the developed world. Is Switzerland not a modern, civilized society? Also, when seconds count, the cops are minutes away. Also, I’d rather have organic, hormone and steroid free meat, its way too expensive to buy at the grocery store and unfortunately I cannot afford to buy it. On the other hand, its cheaper to hunt meat than to buy the hormone and steroid laced crap.

    • Gregory Allard

      Lets abolish the RCMP firearms centers reverse any decission Gut the firearms act of any thing that violates the charter over turn any investigation and Charge the officers involved For an investigation taken against a Licensed gun owner on an accusation that no police officer would ever take seriously from the victim of RCMP gun profiling. (this is nothing unreasonable it is simply holding the RCMP accountable for each every and any violation of section 15).

      If the RCMP really do not wish to show absolute respect for the rights of an entire identifyable group of law abiding citizens then they ought to be disarmed and disbanded as a threat to public safety.

  • Sean Currell

    Again we come back to the best answer period is to push heavily for the government to disband the RCMP all together dismissing all staff and start fresh with another organization that does not include the power abusing hiarchy that is the RCMP now. Plain and simple. They grossly overstep their bounds and forget that their authority comes from US the people not their title or badge.

  • @HellerWithAGunn

    It is becoming increasingly obvious that alleged RCMP “expertise” to quantify and classify firearms is a complete fiction. Instead, the classification system used is wholly subjective, with little more than one petty bureaucrat’s anti-gun agenda being substituted for impartial scientific process. The Harper government must own this and work with key stakeholders to make things right ASAP.

  • Tyrel Redmann

    What facts do you have to make an accusation like that. That anyone who owns a gun is a criminal and is liable too go shoot women and children? Yes RCMP are good and are hard working people but like any human they are not perfect and can’t be given complete control. As history shows us are mistakes it is also why I believe that the innocent should be aloud to protect are selves from the corrupt and those who wish too control. Look at the Middle East is that what you wish are country to look like in 10 years? If you studied anthropology you would know that your statements not only make you look uneducated but also foolish. Also where does it say in are rights that we are guilty until proven inocennt? In a perfect world at a perfect time this may have been feesable. The reality is that what you want is really just a sense of false security.

  • George Psofimis

    Just another problem created by a unnecessary magazine restrictions. There are thousands of using every trick in the book to get more than five rounds in a magazine and the streets aren’t flowing with rivers of blood, so where’s the public safety crisis?

  • Gregory Allard
    • Alex Kourany

      Done

  • Is there much of a shot at taking them to court over this? Looks like a weak stance for them to take.

    • Cal

      To Adriel…That’s really hard to say. The Canadian courts in general have a history of siding with the left in high profile, socially charged cases. That’s how we’ve ended up where we are now. 2 years since your post…we now have a Liberal, Trudeau government. There will be no support coming from them.

      I’m sure the minute Trudeau was elected, Paulson began rubbing his hands together and couldn’t wait to give Harper a curt “so long sir”……..

      And, as a sidebar…whether anyone realizes it or not, Paulson is one of, if not the most powerful person in this country on a day-to-day basis. Now that’s the stuff of nightmares eh???

  • Pingback: H2HB Reclassified by RCMP: Developing Story | TV-PressPass: IWI Tavor TAR-21()

  • Andy Wolf

    I’m surprised nobody is taking the fight to the RCMP yet.